danalinscott
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Registered: 05/30/06
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Reply with quote | #1 |
If you can't find the solution to you problem below...post it here.
We will help you find the solution and then archive the info under either long or short term problem discussions below.
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #2 |
F250...Heated 2nd tank-looped fuel return (with a valve to reg. config), Stock fuel filter. warmed fuel line and stock filter. Flat Plate Heat Exchanger just before the filter with a valve that shuts off coolant flow.
Since adding the FPHE, my fuel filter light is always on. The idle has gotten really rough and wants to die. my acceleration is really muddied. It falters at about 2000 RPMs and then pulls through begrudgingly. I thought I just needed to change the fuel filter, but that has not solved the problem.
complicating factors:
1. When I got the FPHE I ran more veg oil than I had run in a long time. That could have fowled my injectors or pump?
2. I put a fuel system cleaner in my last tank of diesel (right after adding the FPHE) that I'm thinking could have broken down some deposits in my engine that were keeping it tight....
It also appears to be leaking a little bit of oil that it was not dripping before.
To start with, I'm gonna bypass the FPHE, and then go from there.
I'm thinking my fuel pump, injection pump, or inectors are in trouble, but do not understand enough about these components to know how to diagnose.
Thanks,
Kevin
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danalinscott
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Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 720
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Reply with quote | #3 |
Hi Kevin,
A few questions.
1. Are you using the stock filter for both the VO fuel and diesel fuel? In other words is it a "shared" filter...or are you using separate "stock" filters for each fuel?
2.Can you describe your VO tank heater in a bit more detail. Is the fuel line a HOH or HIH design?
3.Does the FPHE get hot to the touch? In some cases the coolant loop supplying it gets "vapor locked" and does not supply hot coolant to it. In these cases it becomes a Flat Plat Fuel "Cooler".
Fuel additives can tend to loosen the waxy deposits in well used diesel tanks and this will cause the filter to become quickly clogged with dirty paraffin formerly held on the tank interior. I doubt that it has effected your IP, lift pump, or injectors...but it CAN clog a filter in less than 10 miles in some cases. If your problems occurred immediately after you added the fuel supplement to your diesel tank..this might be the problem. If you suspect that this IS the problem I have a relatively simple solution.
Quote: Originally Posted by kherschm
F250...Heated 2nd tank-looped fuel return (with a valve to reg. config), Stock fuel filter. warmed fuel line and stock filter. Flat Plate Heat Exchanger just before the filter with a valve that shuts off coolant flow.
Since adding the FPHE, my fuel filter light is always on. The idle has gotten really rough and wants to die. my acceleration is really muddied. It falters at about 2000 RPMs and then pulls through begrudgingly. I thought I just needed to change the fuel filter, but that has not solved the problem.
complicating factors:
1. When I got the FPHE I ran more veg oil than I had run in a long time. That could have fowled my injectors or pump?
2. I put a fuel system cleaner in my last tank of diesel (right after adding the FPHE) that I'm thinking could have broken down some deposits in my engine that were keeping it tight....
It also appears to be leaking a little bit of oil that it was not dripping before.
To start with, I'm gonna bypass the FPHE, and then go from there.
I'm thinking my fuel pump, injection pump, or inectors are in trouble, but do not understand enough about these components to know how to diagnose.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #4 |
1. Using the stock filter for both.
2. Heat Exchange definitely getting hot.
3. Problem persists immediately after changing filters.
My tank heater is a coolant heated trans. cooler mounted in the tank. The lines are wrapped with coolant hose and insulated...just warmers. I am in a hot climate.
I just bypassed the heat exchange and problem persists. I believe that it is something to do with my fuel pump or injectors. When the engine falters around 2000 rpm I get white smoke and then when I let up on the gas, it dies.
I feel like I knocked stuff insided the engine loose with that cleaner, and with the looped fuel return crapped something up.
Is there any way to trouble shoot injectors vs. fuel pump vs. cylinder damage?
Thanks,
Kevin
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danalinscott
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Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 720
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Reply with quote | #5 |
OK..
I seriously doubt that you damaged the engine by adding a fuel additive.
The symptoms sound like fuel starvation to me.
I would advise checking the lift pump for output (volume/pressure) since this appears to be a problem not only on VO..but diesel as well. (If I understand correctly).
Here is why I have suggested this.
The "filter" light in most cases indicates that a positive pressure inside the filter element no longer exists. This is most often due to the filter element becoming so clogged that the fuel pressure provided by the lift pump is not sufficient to "push" the fuel through the element and so the IP is forced "help" by sucking fuel through it. This creates a vacuum which triggers the switch that causes the "filter" light to come on in your instrument cluster.
This vacuum can also be present (even with a new filter element) if the fuel lift pump is no longer "pushing" fuel as it should. If you find that the lift pump is the problem it is good news since they are usually pretty cheap to replace. But you should also change your crankcase oil and oil filter immediately as it may have been contaminated and can cause major lower end damage.
You may also want to consider upgrading your conversion just a little bit with a separate filter for VO once this problem is sorted out.
Let me know if the lift pump output is normal. If it is ..I will proceed to the other possibilities after a few more questions.
Quote: Originally Posted by kherschm
1. Using the stock filter for both.
2. Heat Exchange definitely getting hot.
3. Problem persists immediately after changing filters.
My tank heater is a coolant heated trans. cooler mounted in the tank. The lines are wrapped with coolant hose and insulated...just warmers. I am in a hot climate.
I just bypassed the heat exchange and problem persists. I believe that it is something to do with my fuel pump or injectors. When the engine falters around 2000 rpm I get white smoke and then when I let up on the gas, it dies.
I feel like I knocked stuff insided the engine loose with that cleaner, and with the looped fuel return crapped something up.
Is there any way to trouble shoot injectors vs. fuel pump vs. cylinder damage?
Thanks,
Kevin
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #6 |
Okay Dana,
That response is making me excited, especially since I was just arriving at that conclusion from some internet research and thinking...
Is the lift pump on that truck the same thing as my switiching valve? Mounted between the two tanks on the side of the truck?
How do I check its output? I have to go to the shop and have them do it? Can I borrow or buy a fuel pressure tester from a parts store?
I would just want to check right past the unit?
Thanks!
Kevin
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danalinscott
Moderator
Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 720
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Reply with quote | #7 |
The lift pump is not the same as the remote (fuel) switching valve. It is a pump which is usually attached to the side of the engine (if it is a mechanical pump) and pushes fuel to the filter.
Where it is located..and how it is tested depends on the vehicle. What is the model year of the F250 are we troubleshooting?
Quote: Originally Posted by kherschm
Okay Dana,
Is the lift pump on that truck the same thing as my switiching valve? Mounted between the two tanks on the side of the truck?
How do I check its output? I have to go to the shop and have them do it? Can I borrow or buy a fuel pressure tester from a parts store?
I would just want to check right past the unit?
Thanks!
Kevin
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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danalinscott
Moderator
Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 720
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Quote: Originally Posted by kherschm
1992 f250.
OK,
Then the lift pump should be found on the block attached to the the front passenger side. Follow the fuel hose down from your filter and it should lead you there.
I strongly recommend buying a decent shop manual for your engine. It will not only help you fix this problem (since it should have the technique to check the pump output easily) but should easily save its cost each time you need to pull it out. They normally cost under $25.
Since you may not be able to get it right away...the procedure may be on the Ford Diesel Forum.
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Dana, some time has elapsed.
After talking with a diesel mechanic friend of mine who was very nice and helpful, I tested the vacuum of the mech. fuel pump. It was very strong, and exceeded the 12 whatever units the haynes manual I bought said. When I couldn't get the shraeder valve guage that I bought to show a reading on the filter, I quickly jumped to the conclusion that it was my IP since my friend said that he SERIOUSLY doubted it was the lift pump. He said that he has NEVER seen one of those fail, which leads me to think that this might be a failure caused by veg oil or biodiesel in some way...any thoughts on that? any thought on vacuum vs. push on that mech diaphragm pump?
Thanks, BTW, I had my ip rebuilt and stuck back on, if I can just get this other problem solved, I'll have a sweet truck!
The truck idles REALLY low speed and wants to die if I don't keep a little bit of gas coming...come to think of it, it could just be a result of something I moved when pulling off the IP, though it is strangely similiar to the problem I had before...
What say you Mr. Linscott?
Thanks!!
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kherschm
Registered: 03/29/07
Posts: 7
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Reply with quote | #12 |
okay, so I just checked out my fuel pump again. From looking at a posting by Dana onthe biodiesel site, I checked to see what the flow looked like, it came out of the line going into the pump pretty steadily...so I don't particularly feel like its my lift pump.
the engine is idling with almost no showing on the tachometer and now can't get a good pull when it gets up above 3000RPM. The filter light is not on right now.
Any ideas about what this is? Could it be the injectors not being in good shape becasue they aren't...but I don't want to put new injectors on unless I know that's the problem.
Any suggestions? Do I need to get a pressure reading on my lift pump?
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danalinscott
Moderator
Registered: 05/30/06
Posts: 720
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Quote: Originally Posted by kherschm
okay, so I just checked out my fuel pump again. From looking at a posting by Dana on the biodiesel site, I checked to see what the flow looked like, it came out of the line going into the pump pretty steadily...so I don't particularly feel like its my lift pump.
the engine is idling with almost no showing on the tachometer and now can't get a good pull when it gets up above 3000RPM. The filter light is not on right now.
Any ideas about what this is? Could it be the injectors not being in good shape becasue they aren't...but I don't want to put new injectors on unless I know that's the problem.
Any suggestions? Do I need to get a pressure reading on my lift pump?
Bad injectors may be the problem..and since they can cause other ..more serious and expensive problems it is probably worth replacing them if you KNOW they are bad. If you are not sure it is probably worth having them tested to see if they need to be replaced.
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Dana danalinscott@yahoo.com |
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vnapple
Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2
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Reply with quote | #14 |
I have a 2003 Dodge Ram with a 24 valve Cummins, and I would like your input about whether to introduce my heated veg oil before, or after, my lift pump. On my truck, the lift pump is mounted to the stock fuel filter canister, and fuel travels a short distance from the filter to the injection pump. My concern is that the heated veg oil may be too hot for the lift pump and/or filter canister to handle for long, since they appear to be made of a black plastic. I have mounted a FPHE in the engine compartment, so the oil will be plenty hot. Introducing the oil before the lift pump is the simplest of the two methods for me, because introducing the veg oil between the lift and injection pumps will mean splicing a relay into a lift pump control wire so that the lift pump will be switched off when I am running veg. Do you have any experience with this, Dana? This is my last hurdle before I finish my conversion.
Thanks!
Vinny
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